Cancel Culture & The Politics of Envy w/ Dr. Anne Hendershott

[00:00:29] Hello, everybody. What’s up. Welcome back to another episode of Hear and Now podcast. I’m very excited to welcome my professor, Dr. Hendershott today. I’ve been taking her sociology class this semester. And we are here to talk about cancel culture. And I know this is probably going to be a little bit of a harder topic, but I know Dr.

[00:00:49] Hendershott will take it head on. So welcome to the show. I’m so happy to have you. 

[00:00:54] Dr Hendershott: [00:00:54] Thank you. I’m happy to be on and cancel culture. You’re right. This is a hard topic. It’s painful topic because it affects so many. It affects all of us. I have been canceled in my life. I have had friends who were canceled.

[00:01:10] Professors are canceled all the time by other professors, students. I see. In pain over cancel culture. It’s just a huge problem. And it’s only getting bigger and worse in time. So yeah, I’m happy to be on to talk about that because I think people need to be aware of just how dangerous it is dangerous. It is.

[00:01:31] I think it’s the most dangerous thing facing us right now. 

[00:01:34] Sophia Lebano: [00:01:34] Absolutely. Yeah. I’m so excited to hear your wisdom and just whatever you can share with us. So first, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself, who you are and what you do. 

[00:01:43] Dr Hendershott: [00:01:43] Yes. I’m, I’m a mom and a grandma, first of all. My grandson was just visiting here.

[00:01:52]He’s 10 years old and then I have two others. I’ve been married for 46 years. So a very long time. Yes, I met my husband. When I was very young, I dropped out of college to get married when I was 19. But did that in those days? I didn’t think I needed college cause I was just going to be a mom. So I dropped out and didn’t go back until my daughter was in kindergarten.

[00:02:14] And I think going into school ever since I never stopped, I got my master’s degree. And counseling. My undergraduate is psychology. My masters is in counseling and I worked as a family therapist for many years. For a school district in Connecticut regional school district 10, or I counsel families with kids who had problems at school, emotionally disturbed kids labeled emotionally disturbed.

[00:02:37] Usually it was the family that was emotionally sister. She’s fine. It’s just, the family was messed up. So I did that for many years, but when my children became teenagers, I decided to Well back to school and study the theory behind it. I kind of got tired of counseling. Not that I got burned out, maybe I did.

[00:02:56]But it is, it’s not an easy job dealing with [00:03:00] emotionally disturbed kids and families. So I went back and I’ve been teaching for the past 30 years. I sociology, I taught for 15 years at the university of San Diego. Let’s share the department there. Then I left San Diego, went to Kings college, which is a small Christian college as a Dean for eight years.

[00:03:20] And then now I’m at Franciscan for the past eight years. So my eighth year at Franciscan and I love it. It’s always been my dream to teach in a Catholic Orthodox Catholic college. And here I am. So that’s how I got here. I write a lot of books and I write a lot of articles this year. I published over 50 articles, many of which are about cancel culture.

[00:03:44] Some of which you’ve read in the class. Cause I, I bring them into the class. I try to give two sides because my side is. Pretty conservative. I’m sure you’ve noticed. And I bring the other side into, because it’s not fair to just present my side. I want you to see all sides. I just finished writing a book called the politics of envy.

[00:04:03] I know your listeners don’t see it. You can see it. My newest book called politics of envy and I have a whole chapter on. I call it academic mobbing, because mob thing, behavior is a form of culture. And we’ll get into that later. It’s when people mob of an individual and they all gang up on them. I’ve never had it happen to me, but I have good friends who are prestigious professors who have been mobbed on their campuses, mostly because they’re good.

[00:04:38] And people don’t like people who are better than they are. And so they have to somehow bring them down. That’s what my whole book is about. Envy, the attempt to bring other people down and cancel culture is exactly that. So that’s the long story of how I got interested in cancer culture. And why? Because I think it’s dangerous.

[00:04:55] I think that it can destroy lives. It can destroy, but I think it’s all based. A lot of it on envy. People are envious of unsure. People are envious of use of yeah. Where you’ve got your podcasts. You have strong faith. There is such a thing as faith envy. I learned that doing this book, people are very envious of those with faith.

[00:05:16] because faith is a gift from God. Some people don’t open the door to that phase and they’re mad at those who have, and so it’s a long story, but yeah, 

[00:05:27] Sophia Lebano: [00:05:27] I am. I love it. No, I’m so blessed to have been in your class and I’m really sad It’s almost over – as we’re recording this, I’m almost ready to hand in the final paper for the class.

[00:05:37] So but it has been just so fascinating to. See the world from a different perspective. And. You know, going through all of these articles, like you said, having both sides, I think was the biggest blessing for me. Because it really allows you to think for yourself where some universities, I’m sure you can say this for yourself, that they give you one side and you can’t [00:06:00] form your own thoughts.

[00:06:01] And I think it’s just been amazing to have these both perspectives and especially when they’re written by you. They’re so great. And I love all that, right? 

[00:06:11] Dr Hendershott: [00:06:11] You just got me, you would get a very distorted view because it would be my opinion because most of the articles are my opinion. And that’s why I think it’s really important.

[00:06:22] To give both sides and to give a lot of data. And you’re very good with data. I noticed that I’d want my students to be comfortable with data so that when they make their arguments and their opinions, that it’s informed by data, because we don’t want to just like say, well, I think this and not have anything to back it up with.

[00:06:39] So that’s what I try to do in the intro course. I’m glad you like it. I love having you in class posts were fascinating. I’m going to miss this class a very good this semester. Really, really good whole smart thing. I know that sounds like a pretty safe, but I do learn a lot. And especially because my children are old now older and I’m not.

[00:07:06] Part of popular culture. Like when my son was in high school, I used to watch TV with, when my daughter was in high school, we watched MTV, which is just, but at least I got to know what was going on. I remember that like cribs show is on and pimp my ride.

[00:07:27] Okay. Until I’m, I am in these discussion boards or I’ve learned. What you’re watching what you’re listening to, what you’re doing. So I love teaching online. I feel like I get to know my students on this better than in the classroom, because the shy ones even 

[00:07:43] Sophia Lebano: [00:07:43] talk. Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, you have to if it’s for a grade, you know?

[00:07:49] Dr Hendershott: [00:07:49] Yeah. We’re in the classroom. He can kind of hide one of those hiders, you know, I never said a word. So I understand people who hide in class. I don’t think he would ever hide me in class. No

[00:08:07] place to hide your, you just have to talk, you have to respond. And so that’s why I guess I like it. So. Yeah, I do miss being in touch. Now. It’s like when you’re this old you’re really out of touch. And so I writing the book, I had to really get in touch again with, with the popular culture to really understand and has envy to me is what drives, cancel culture.

[00:08:34] Not everybody agrees with that, but. I mean, can you see it, the connection at all? 

[00:08:40] Sophia Lebano: [00:08:40] I really do. I mean, I, and I’m interested in hear more on your thoughts, but I just look at all these celebrities and especially celebrities when they’re the ones that are being canceled and it’s almost just like, people are jealous of them and that’s why they want to cancel them because something within themselves, it’s just not something.

[00:08:59] Oh [00:09:00] yeah, I know. 

[00:09:00] Dr Hendershott: [00:09:00] Yes. And. Well, like celebrities who might come out as pro-life, that’s just like the end of a career for some people. And everybody gangs up on them. If they’re pro biotic, because Hollywood is embracing easel, he’s one of the most talented actors in Hollywood. And he, I mean, he never complains.

[00:09:22] I think very pro-life look at Chris. Do you know much about Chris Pratt? And he’s been criticized. I mean, Ellen Ellen got the whole crowd to come down on him. Ellen got all of her viewers to gang up on him because he’s Christian because he actually believes in the word of God, how dare he? So we need to cancel him. I have a feeling that there is some envy there because he has such a strong faith, but I’m like, you go girl, you.

[00:10:15] Have to in his church, he defended the Bible. It’s like, Whoa, that doesn’t happen too often to see a celebrity defend the Bible. Exactly. We didn’t allow the cancel. And that’s what I think is important. I know we haven’t gotten into what causes cancer culture and all, but to me, if you’re being canceled, you fight back harder.

[00:10:35] You don’t let them cancel. You cancel me that much because I refuse to be a victim because, and it’s not because I know I’m right, because I’m not right on everything. I am open. But I know they aren’t on these things. I know that Ellen isn’t right on that she isn’t right that the Bible allows same-sex marriage. 

[00:11:04] That’s just nonsense. You’re you know, so I know that some things are wrong. I don’t think I’m always right, but cancel culture would stop if people would just. Stop being victims or apologize. And that’s the worst. I mean, did you see that the bachelor guy, do you, do you watch the bachelor? 

[00:11:24] Sophia Lebano: [00:11:24] I don’t, but I know, I think I know what you’re talking 

[00:11:27] Dr Hendershott: [00:11:27] about.

[00:11:27] Yeah, he was he defended someone. I can’t even remember somebody on the show. And then when they started coming after him, he apologized and I thought, Oh yeah, you’re done now because they smelled blood in the water. As soon as you start apologizing. For the truth. Yeah. 

[00:11:46] Sophia Lebano: [00:11:46] It’s over for you. Exactly. 

[00:11:49] Dr Hendershott: [00:11:49] never apologized to the mob.

[00:11:52] Yeah. I’ll tell you a little bit about mobbing behavior in this chapter, of this book, [00:12:00] politics of envy, on mobbing behavior and I have several friends who’ve been mobbed. And what mobbing behavior is it? The word mobbing comes from the bird world in the bird world. We still live on the ocean in Connecticut. And very often we would have these birding episodes where like a Hawk or some kind of bird of prey would be.

[00:12:27] Like cowering in the bushes? Well, a whole bunch of little tiny birds would be like harassing him, like pecking at him, not touching him, but zooming in, like they were going to touch him and hurt him. And he’s cowering there. This bird of prey who could eat those birds for a lunch easily, but they’re in a mob and that’s called mobbing behavior.

[00:12:50] Oh, the little birds, they deprecate on his head and eventually he would just like escape skulking away. He wasn’t going to have those birds for lunch because they weren’t going to allow it. It’s usually the big birds that are mocked. And so in academia we call it modeling behavior because. On a college campus, very often that big bird on campus, like the best professor, perhaps like a professor Sullivan, Tony Sullivan, who was a very prestigious professor at Providence college.

[00:13:25] He was mobbed by faculty because he wrote many books and he was too conservative and they didn’t like what he said. And so all faculty got together and. They didn’t deprecate on his head, but they might as well have, you know, but they were like little birds, all trying to attack him to death. He eventually had to leave.

[00:13:46] He never apologized, but he just couldn’t bear it any longer. At one point he was in his office and they were outside his office window with megaphones, calling him racist and homophobic and every name you could think of. Wow. That’s mobbing behavior. A woman at UC Santa Cruz was smart so badly. She was aggressive.

[00:14:11] She had a lesbian partner, but her crime was, she worked too hard and she was too successful and she was the chancellor and she made other people work too hard and they didn’t think it was fair. She also got a good job for her partner and lesbian partner. I think it was her wife at the time. And they hated her and they decided to just make her life miserable.

[00:14:32] So they went to her house, they put an iron pole through her window glass all over her living room destroyed her life and she ended up jumping off a building at UC Santa cross – Santa Cruz. I’ve read about her in my book. I have a lot of episodes of suicide after mobbing behavior. Mommy behavior is cancel culture.

[00:14:54] It’s just the word that we use to describe academic. The whole chapter is [00:15:00] mostly yeah. Academia. Now the behavior occurred at Mount St. Mary’s a few years ago. President came in, a lot of faculty just despised him because he had been very successful in the business world. He’d been a consultant, a hedge fund man, or a finance guy.

[00:15:15] Brilliant. Smart. Came to their rescue because they were at a de-rating in terms of their finances at Mount St Mary’s and the faculty all ganged up on him and managed to get him out. He said some intemperate remarks and they didn’t like them and they got national exposure and they drove him out. He never apologized cause he didn’t do anything wrong, but he was driven out in the board.

[00:15:42] Let them go. Wow. Now I’ve never been mobbed at, in order to be mobbed, you have to be a superstar. We really do superstar. When I know someone’s been mocked and I, when I interviewed them for the book, first of all, I congratulate him on being mobbed because you are something good because in order to bring somebody down, they have to be on a higher plane.

[00:16:07] And that’s what coach. Cancel culture is there is such envy toward that. I see hate crimes very often driven by and they, I write a lot about, you’ve read some of my articles on the Asian hate crimes. The people who are doing this hate Asians, mostly because they’re so successful. Wow. If you look at their income, Asian income, a hundred thousand dollars a year is the median income in the Asian community for the black community.

[00:16:37] It’s 45,000. So there’s tremendous resentment by blacks, toward Asians. And so they would like to cancel them all. And there’s tremendous resentment from blacks, for the Jewish community. Close-knit families, fathers in the home. Now I’m not saying that to denigrate the black community, not. You know that, but there is ND the absolutely the things they say after the will.

[00:17:05] He has everything. He has this, he has that. They want to bring them down. So in order to be canceled, you have to have been up there because somebody is trying to bring you down. And people love to bring people down this way. I wrote this whole book. Every chapter is a different form of ending. I think it’s the worst sin in the Bible.

[00:17:26] And so when we talk about cancel cultures, Catholics, we really should look at the Bible and what the Bible has to say. I mean, look at Joseph, you know, the story of Joseph and his brothers, brothers tried to cancel on him to tell the father he’s really bad. You know, we got to, why, why is he your favorite?

[00:17:44] He’s he shouldn’t be your favorite word or your favorite same thing with Cain and Abel. Think about Abel. April had the most pleasing sacrifices to God. I mean, he was sacrificing these animals to God and God was pleased with that. [00:18:00] Cain was sacrificing a lesser sacrifice and he was sacrificing what he felt like sacrifice.

[00:18:05] He was so envious of Abel’s ability to have favor from God that he had to cancel him. I mean, the ultimate cancel is murder and very often murder is driven by envy. We would be surprised how many I have a whole chapter on crime set ending. So that tensile culture is woven throughout the Bible. It’s everywhere.

[00:18:29] Even Satan Satan tried to cancel it. I know that sounds silly. I’ve never written an article about it. I was thinking in terms of Satan and cancel culture, cause Satan was very jealous of that. Very, very jealous, very envious. In fact, if you read paradise loss, they used the word envy several times in that, in that description of Satan’s envy, that covetousness it’s one of the, you know, the 10 commandments thou shall not covet.

[00:19:01] I need for his goods. Right. Or that neighbors to me or that neighbor. Cause it’s usually what it is. There’s this covetousness, this desire to have what that person has or not even have with that person has to not have that person have what he has. There’s this joke about Russian culture because Russian culture is the old Soviet union culture is known for being an envy culture and a big camp culture.

[00:19:33] And the joke is that there was this two very poor people, peasants living next door to each other. And they both had nothing. I mean, just dirt for one of them had this great town, a great milk. And the other one didn’t have one day a genie came along. And the genie went to the guy without the cow and said, you have one wish and I can grant you any wish you want.

[00:20:06] And the genie said, so I’m assuming you’d probably like a cow that gives good milk. And the Russian peasants said, no, I want you to just get rid of kill that cow. I don’t want him to have anything that’s envy. Wow. You don’t even want a better life, but she wanted him to have that life. That’s and that’s true ending the desire to wish the death or the destruction of another person.

[00:20:32] And the people that I interviewed for my book understood that very well, because there were some that their death was wished for. I mean, there, the rhetoric is horrible. I mean, it’s awkward hearing it right now, but some people do. They go so far as to wish for the death of another. That’s a joke obviously, but there was some truth to it.

[00:20:56] Yeah. Nope. [00:21:00] People just are so hateful and have so much hate in their hearts that they don’t even want the good cow. They wouldn’t want a comparable cow. They want to take away. What’s making someone happy. And that goes back to Aristotle. Aristotle talks about envy being the wish, the wish of ill of someone else.

[00:21:21] That’s a horrible things to be folding in your life. You must have seen this. Maybe you’ve never had it happen 

[00:21:28] Sophia Lebano: [00:21:28] to you. No, absolutely. I mean, it’s just, I live in, you know, I did that sociology paper for you in the middle of the semester. Pennsylvania is kind of one of those up and down States where you live in some good areas.

[00:21:41] And I live in a pretty wealthy area and I’m very blessed to be there. And the amount of, I would say unintentional cancel culture of some people that, that envy is driving them to be like, well, I, I don’t want you to have that. And if I can’t have it, you can’t have it. Just even looking at the kids where they go to college and, and all these things.

[00:22:02] It’s, there’s so much envy in our world. And even social media, you know, I have a platform on social media and to seeing all of my friends being canceled because of things that they said and standing up for their own truth, it’s horrible. And, you know, I would love to hear the stories of them if. If it ever gets to that point of damaging their windows or, you know, driving them to commit suicide, like it’s truly, truly awful.

[00:22:28]But do you think we as Catholics participate or encourage cancel culture in any way?

[00:22:37] Dr Hendershott: [00:22:37] Participate in, I was a middle child, so that’s why I wrote the book. I had a very cute little sister, I’d say more. And the youngest she came along when I was seven, I remember really disliking hall. We’re close now, but I understand that sense of loss when you are replaced in a way. And I had a brilliant older sister who was like, genius.

[00:23:07] And I’m in the middle. So like, but I do, I understand the pain people feel when they see someone else having attention or privileges that you don’t think you knew had. When I was very young, very young seven, eight year nine, I remember. And I, I guard against it so carefully because I think it. It could eat someone apart.

[00:23:34] And sibling rivalry is really the first rivalry, the first opportunity for ending. And I have a whole chapter about fairytales because it’s very much related to cancel culture. The envy that you see in fairytales. I didn’t know if you liked fairytales growing up. I loved fairytales. I always fed my children.

[00:23:55] Now I’m reading my grandchildren. Some of them are very frightening, [00:24:00] but Cinderella was canceled by her ugly stepsisters. You know, she was this good, beautiful woman who was made to wear rags and sit by the fireplace and get all dirty from all the ashes cinder, Ella. Couldn’t go to the ball. And I like to read the original one and I put it in my book and the original one, the step sisters were so awful.

[00:24:26] I mean, when the Prince came with the glass slipper, they were determined to get into that slip. So their mother took them into the other room. The first one, she cut off her toes with a thing, blade, a big knife and cut off her toes. And they’re all bleeding and everything. I can get my slipper now. And they’re like defenses.

[00:24:46] Like I don’t think so. So then she takes the second one into the other room, cuts up or heels. I’m not kidding. That’s the original Grimm brothers. It gets worse. That’s effort, Yeltsin. Friends like, Oh no, I don’t think so. Anyway, you find Cinderella and show me, you know, cause goodness always prevails. One thing about fairytales, you can count on the goodness, always prevail.

[00:25:08] So her in this elaborate wedding and they invite the ugly step sisters to come to the wedding and then the Disney version, they’re all dressed up in their nice hats and everybody’s happy LA and the Grimm brothers they’re on their way to church. And as they’re walking into the church for the wedding crows come and pick out their eyes to they’re flying.

[00:25:32] Oh my goodness. That’s the story I told my children, the strange children now. No, no normal, but they still talk about mom and her. I where’s my fairy tale book. Yeah. I have the original Grimm’s. Oh, you’re in my library. I didn’t want to do that now because we’re not on TV. It is it’s gruesome, but it’s revealing.

[00:25:58] And the Disney one isn’t good enough. You need to show what happens with a sin because those ugly stepsisters were ugly inside and outside. And that’s what I wanted to teach my children. I wanted them to see that when you commit sin, there is a serious punishment and the Grimm brothers wanted that too.

[00:26:17] They’re very Christian. And so to have your eyes pecked out and the idea of the ice being tactile and blinded, that’s a biblical thing too. If you’ve ever read Dante Purgatorio, read that. Yes, the people who are envious and Dante are forced to have their eyes sewn shut with wire so that they can’t see others and envy them.

[00:26:44] And I think Whoa. Yeah, that is really, really drastic, but revealing. And in, in Purgatorio, Dante talks about envy as a sin of sight that you you’re seeing someone, but you’re really [00:27:00] blind because you don’t see the goodness he’s ugly stepsisters. Didn’t see the goodness. They were blind to the goodness of Cinderella.

[00:27:07] And all they saw was what Cinderella had, which was beauty and faith and love and the love of her father. And they were people don’t make much of that, but Cinderella’s father did love her. A lot and probably didn’t care too much for these ugly duckling sisters who were so nasty. I wouldn’t let them either, not just because they were ugly, but they were ugly inside.

[00:27:29] So I keep, I’m not physically too, but anyway, the ugliness inside pin through that’s often the case. Yeah. So I used to wear fairytales a lot. And like I said, I have a whole chapter on fairytales, the lion King’s one of my favorites. That’s a contemporary one. That’s a cancel culture too, in a way, the envious scar and these Mustapha.

[00:27:56]And that’s really a Hamlet story. Shakespeare talks about cancel culture and envy. So yeah, it’s everywhere. It’s hard to avoid and they can learn so much from fairytales, but people don’t don’t tell their children fairytales. Cause they think they’re too mean. I think they’re doing a great disservice by not, I mean, there’s so many good ones, snow white.

[00:28:20] Who’s the fairest of them. All not you. And she’s an ad cause she’s not the fairest of them all. So she has to kill the person who is the fairest know. 

[00:28:31] Sophia Lebano: [00:28:31] Yeah. 

[00:28:32] Dr Hendershott: [00:28:32] All of that. Indeed. Most fairy tales are and singing bone. It’s about two brothers who had this rivalry. Here’s the time you have to read my books up 

[00:28:43] Sophia Lebano: [00:28:43] here.

[00:28:44] Exactly. You know, I need to get a copy of it. But no, that’s, that’s such a great point because I. You know, my parents are very big in watching movies and seeing just this almost inherent Christianity amongst like, think about star Wars, you know, good versus evil. Like that is always the case for a lot of these movies.

[00:29:04]But yeah, 

[00:29:06] Dr Hendershott: [00:29:06] you’re right, 

[00:29:07] Sophia Lebano: [00:29:07] exactly. And just to put them in perspective of. You know, envy and looking at the seven deadly sins and then incorporating those into these things. It’s almost like you are being made to be blind to looking at these sins. And you know, it’s funny cause you’re saying like even Shakespeare is talking about cancel culture.

[00:29:26] To me. It’s only something that’s come up in the last year. I’ve only just kind of started becoming aware of it. So you think it’s something that has been around for as long as we can remember. 

[00:29:38] Dr Hendershott: [00:29:38] From the time of Christ, I think Christ was canceled. The Pharisees were crazy about Christ and they kind of ganged up on him to tell you the truth.

[00:29:48] I mean, pilot wouldn’t have done what he did. I mean, of course it was biblical. It was going to happen, but she just had a lot of power and they [00:30:00] resented that and they didn’t want him to have that power. And so I believe that they all kind of mobbed him. They got together and said, what are we going to do about this guy?

[00:30:13] If I had been there, you know, I would have understood. I think that’s what it was. Certainly it was preordained. But to me, MD is the original sin, even E. Ate that fruit to get more power. A lot of people say, Oh, the sin is pride. The first thing was pride. I don’t think so. I argued about this with Dr. Hahn professor Hahn.

[00:30:40] He understands envy because a lot of people are very envious of professor Han because he’s so brilliant. He is successful. He publishes widely. He has a big platform. There’s a lot of envy, so he understands it. And I did talk with him before I wrote this book is very helpful. And we talked about Neve and Eva’s promised by stating that if she ate that she too could be powerful.

[00:31:06] So it is pride was a motivating force. I think in a way it was indeed, she was envious of Christ. I mean, of God’s power, the power of God to create. And she didn’t have that. And so she convinced Adam when she ate it, Hey, you two can eat this fruit of wisdom of tree of wisdom. And mostly it was because Satan convinced them that it shouldn’t be taken that from him.

[00:31:33]You know, they should have the power to, and who does, and he has to say, you can’t eat from that tree. So I think it was a lot of people say it was pride and that’s probably what you were taught. So don’t. You don’t have, I see NB everywhere. So that’s my problem. But I’ve been writing this book for two years.

[00:31:53] It just came out in October and I’ve been talking about it and writing articles. So I see a lot of envy right now and in politics, this desire to For people who have less to bring down the people who have more, I mean, the good team. Did I have you read the article that the case? Oh yes. That, that guy that put up the guillotine is very envious of Jeffrey.

[00:32:19] So it’s, and I’m not a big fan. So I was like, Whoa, hard. And he owns too much, but I’m not going to take it away from him. And I certainly don’t think he should go to the good, but I think in the drives, a lot of that, they would like to cancel it Jeff basis. They’re trying to cancel the police and we’re just living in a very, very.

[00:32:43] Outwardly envious time. And B has always been hidden and people would hide it. Now there’s no hiding it. People gram on it, you know, Joe Biden and all this Democrats ran on a platform of envy OLED me and we’ll take down the rich [00:33:00] that’s what they were saying. We’re going to tax the rich. We’re going to tax anybody that makes over 400,000 Elizabeth Warren called him fat tats.

[00:33:10] You know, there are rich people in the world. Some of them worked very hard to get there. I don’t feel envy toward them, but that’s how they got elected. That’s how we have our new presidential administration is through really trying to cancel rich people. 

[00:33:27] Sophia Lebano: [00:33:27] Exactly. That’s a great point. I mean, I look at all these people and you know, I’m thinking of Kylie Jenner, you know, she’s not too much older than I am.

[00:33:35] She worked hard for her money. Maybe some of it she did have as a family inheritance, you can say, but she’s creating these multi-billion million dollar companies. And, you know, I have my own business as a web designer and I work hard for my money and will people, my age be jealous or envious. Probably but do you think that we could be innocently or unlawful and knowingly canceling people by just our daily actions or daily words that we say?

[00:34:04] Dr Hendershott: [00:34:04] Yeah, I think so. I’m sure that there are people that would think they could do a better job than you. Yeah, I don’t think so. They probably, for sure there are people that resent you. I mean, you can’t think about that though. And you don’t think about that. I’m sure you don’t, that’s not what motivates you to be better.

[00:34:25] Exactly. Because you wouldn’t have been as successful as you are. That’s not a motivating force. You do it because you love it. You want to get word to people. Your faith inspires you. You’re not driven by envy to show them off where that’s a negative way. And that’s, that’s helped him.  I wish it was stopped, but it’s not going to cause nobody’s ashamed of it anymore.

[00:34:53] They used to word called ShadenFreud. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of that. Stigma. Fried is a German word and it’s happiness at the misery. Or the misfortune of someone else. There are people that get happy when bad things happen to other people, especially those people that the bad things are happening too.

[00:35:14]Were successful. It’s called schadenfreude. I wish we had it in our language because S C H a E D E N F R E T. Shadenfried German. That’s crazy. Yeah. A car company, used it. Car companies use envy all the time to sell cars and you know, and he’s a great marketing tool. He’s me. My phone’s going off.

[00:35:40] I should. I just I’ll turn it off. One podcast. You don’t have your phone on I’m sorry. Messages. 

[00:35:53] Sophia Lebano: [00:35:53] That’s good. But do you think that there’s any sort of tangible, I mean, like you said, there’s [00:36:00] tangible you know, examples of cancel culture other than just smashing in people’s windows or something. How can we really start to identify cancel culture before we see it start to happen even in ourselves?

[00:36:13]Dr Hendershott: [00:36:13] Well, I think that’s common sense to know when people make snide remarks to you. You know, that you’re on your way to being canceled, especially if you’ve been extremely successful at something you went to no word or something. Yeah, I think that’s probably the best way, but social media is the worst.

[00:36:39] It’s just the worst. I am on Facebook only because I like to load my articles there, but I am getting involved in the arguments in the silliness, because even the old people cancel each other. They do. It happens all the time. I have to say, I feel envy once in a while. Like when we were living in Connecticut and I had grandchildren here in Florida and I wasn’t seeing him, then I see somebody else.

[00:37:06] A friend of mine, Mr. Graham is doing some kind of craft with their grandchildren or taking her to the theater. And the ballet is like, Oh, I didn’t want them to like fall or something. I kind of envy jealousy. Jealousy is different from it. Yeah. Jealousy is. Usually wanting to protect the value of relationships.

[00:37:31] So I have a valued relationship with my grandchildren, and I want to protect that if someone were to come in and try to destroy that that would be, you know, jealousy can be positive and be, can never be positive. And that’s why we sold it. Somebody having crafts with their grandchildren, if I didn’t see it on Facebook, the some things maybe we shouldn’t be posting to.

[00:37:55] But we just do it. If somebody gets this great book contract with a great publisher, like, Hmm. I just, I got that, but I don’t wish Hill I’m happy for them. And I’ll write three exclamation points.

[00:38:12] We all have to guard against it. It’s a horrible emotion, but social media, there’s so much research on the more you are on social media. Instagram is much worse than Facebook. The images in this short things and much worse in terms of the NBN canceled poster, I think, and Twitter is just the worst of all of them.

[00:38:35] I am off Twitter, completely off Twitter because I get, I didn’t tap on Twitter a lot. I was, and this is one guy. His website’s called slowly boiled frog. And for some reason he just despises me. So I, Twitter used to just like, I’m merciful to any article I wrote. He just went on his way to trash it and say nasty things.

[00:38:58] That’s why, when I give these articles to [00:39:00] students, I’m done unhappy at all when they disagree, because you would not believe how so. Vehemently something involves decree because I’m out there. And when you put yourself out there, you have to be willing to take the slings and arrows cause they come, they just do.

[00:39:17] And that’s the way life is. Yeah, I’m always happy to have a conversation. Cause you even, you probably don’t agree with everything. I say, some people think, Oh, you’re blaming the black community for Asian hate crime. No, I’m not. I’m just trying to handle it. And if we look at the demographics of who’s committing the hate crimes on Asians, it’s really not Danish people.

[00:39:38] And it’s not a lot of white people, but it is some white people who live in their neighborhoods. So it isn’t just blacks. But the overwhelming majority in New York city hate crime is a black Asian thing drive South. So I’ve gotten a lot of flack on that. So I’m glad you read the article. You didn’t attack me in your class.

[00:40:03] I don’t think it’s ending 

[00:40:07] Sophia Lebano: [00:40:07] with no evidence to back it up whatsoever. 

[00:40:10] Dr Hendershott: [00:40:10] You agree with me? I show you’re in some of those comments, they don’t hurt my feelings. Yeah. I mean, I guess I’m old enough. I don’t have feelings anymore. 

[00:40:20] Sophia Lebano: [00:40:20] Well, no. I mean, I just think that there’s just some people where they they’re envious that you came up with that theory.

[00:40:27] Well, not you specifically, but there, these people came up with the theory of envy themselves. So they’re going to try every way that they can to disagree with you. And it’s, it’s just really interesting. I would really love to have like a psychology class to go off of this. Where, why are you disagreeing with.

[00:40:44] Yes, it’s very 

[00:40:45] Dr Hendershott: [00:40:45] different in terms of just the way we look at suicide, where I see it as external factors, psychologists look at it as all internal fact factors. And so I’ve had debates with psychologists about suicide, why people commit suicide and they always look at biochemical reasons. And I said, well, how do you explain men more than women?

[00:41:06] Well, men have more biological issues. And I say, well, how do you explain, why am I in Tana and Wyoming? What you’ve seen this week and suicide data, much more likely like three times the number of SU the rate of suicide in Montana versus Washington DC. Well, they can’t explain that very well except saying, well, you know, it must be there’s more clinical depression.

[00:41:31] No, actually not. No, because there’s more white, older men live in Wyoming and Montana. Then in Washington, DC, Washington DC is filled with narcissists and African-Americans neither of which commit suicide. Right. They’re highly unlikely to commit suicide. They just are. They’re embedded in a community.

[00:41:51] They’re more religious. And do not commit suicide at near the rates, probably less than half the rates of whites. Wow. [00:42:00] It’s graphic. It’s not psychological pressed to suicide and it’s, that’s not, that’s not the part that makes you jump off a bridge. 

[00:42:10] Sophia Lebano: [00:42:10] Exactly. You’re giving me all the tips for my discussion board posts.

[00:42:16] Dr Hendershott: [00:42:16] Yeah. Montana is always number one or two. Is it? Why do you think? Well, the rugged individualist culture, a lot of white males and older former veterans, and a lot of veterans end up in Montana and veterans are much more likely to commit suicide as Laos. All of that is sociological. There’s nothing, nothing exactly psychology.

[00:42:43] Cause they couldn’t explain anything for me. Yeah. I taught a course with a psychologist once it was so nice and so smart. And I used to make fun of her all the time. So I feel like I should probably apologize, bring a brain into the, like a model of a brain. And I just like laugh at her because she said, this is the amygdala.

[00:43:04] This is why juveniles commit crime. I’m like, this is a house who lives in a gang infested neighborhood. You were, has no father in the house. This is why juveniles can crime or the gang infested 

[00:43:19] Sophia Lebano: [00:43:19] neighborhood. Exactly.

[00:43:25] So sociology has just opened up so many perspectives for me, and I’m glad I took it before I take a psychology course, which I’m going to do. 

[00:43:32] Dr Hendershott: [00:43:32] Yeah. And then you’ll like, she told me a lie. Yeah, I sent you because of your own mind. It 

[00:43:41] Sophia Lebano: [00:43:41] just makes so much sense in so many things. Like there are just so many external factors.

[00:43:46] Dr Hendershott: [00:43:46] You’re right. I mean, I love psychology because, and I love, I love Jordan Peterson, but he’s psychologist. Yeah. There is a lot to psychology that it’s very valuable and I would never, I make fun of it, but I’ve never, ever one of I’m grateful I have that background. It just didn’t explain the kind of emotional problems I was seeing in the school district.

[00:44:10] It just didn’t. I mean, these kids weren’t malnourished, they came from wealthy families. They had broken families or they had. Trauma nothing to do with their amygdala, you know?

[00:44:25] Okay. No, this ecologists would say, Oh, but their brain was changed by trauma, but that says your bad, at course, in South, by Dr. Storm. She’s brilliant and wonderful. It’s of course in social psychology, you’ll feel at home there because it’s not a rejection of what I’ve taught you. It’s more of a melding of the two.

[00:44:46] Sophia Lebano: [00:44:46] That’s awesome. Yeah, I’m excited to have. Kind of this both perspective of psychology and sociology. You know, I’ll, I’ll talk to you in December. Once I’m finished with the class, my 

[00:44:59] Dr Hendershott: [00:44:59] office, [00:45:00] I’ll be back on campus in the fall. So I’d love to get to know you in person or are you at home?

[00:45:07] I’m at home. So I am an online, just online, only student. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I do have another question. So what should our response be to cancel culture as Catholics? Is it something that we can just completely reject altogether or that is circumstantial?

[00:45:28] Dr Hendershott: [00:45:28] Fight. We still have to stop it. And I say that in my book, like if the Dean of Providence college side office, we all want to be part of the club. We all want to be part of the burdens that are defecating on the hall. We all want to, because it’s so much fun to gang up on people. And I think it’s unfortunate.

[00:45:56] I, I wouldn’t find it fun. I I’m a fighter and I guess I’m scrappy and they would feel very badly. And, but at the moment you don’t see it that way. Cancel culture, you’re swept up with that. You know, that’s what culture is all about. The new norms that they’re learning, the new values. You don’t even thinking anymore.

[00:46:20] That’s, that’s. Mob behavior. There, there are some psychological theories about mob behavior, contagion theory. But I think it’s also sociological. 

[00:46:32] Sophia Lebano: [00:46:32] Absolutely. So do you have any, I guess, last words of advice or anything about how we as individuals or as people who have influenced you, how can we start to reject and fight against cancel culture?

[00:46:48] Dr Hendershott: [00:46:48] Well, this wrong. I think we have an advantage as Catholics or Christians, all Christians, and that we can look at Christ because Christ was ganged up on, obviously when he became man and came down and suffered and died for us, that would not have been possible. If the crowd had just thought about it for a minute, this is a good man.

[00:47:15] You know, why are we doing this? But. It certainly was, it was in the Bible. It had to have, and it was prophesied. It had to happen. You know, we know that, but when it’s happening to us or we got forbid are part of canceling somewhere. I think it’s much harder for Catholics to be part of that, even though I think it happens on.

[00:47:41] Every campus, even good Catholic campuses, it happens much less at Franciscan. I haven’t seen a single episode of module cause I’ve worked on several campuses, three no whore. Cause I taught at university of Hartford and there was a cancel, there was a cancel culture in [00:48:00] each of those. And I have not seen that.

[00:48:02] I’ve seen and. But not cancel culture. Maybe you have with students. And so you wouldn’t want to get yourself in trouble. There’s a whole thing about masks right now. I don’t know if that’s part of cancel culture, the mascot controversy, and then the traditional Latin mask for some, for cancel culture. But I just don’t see it at Francisco.

[00:48:31] I think we’re blessed. It’s one of the reasons I went there because I just didn’t want to be in a school or I have to deal with that kind of stuff. And I’m glad to be there. So the more we can act like Christ. I end my book with us because he was a very Christ-like figure. And he said, I don’t know if any of your lists, I find it inspiring because it is canceled culture.

[00:48:55] The whole ship decided, you know, it really wasn’t the whole ship. Most of them love Billy, but he was this beautiful sailor who was good and innocent. And there was this evil, evil person who just wanted him to go on because he was so envious of his goodness. And he sacrificed himself some fantastic. And the other cheek, I always say fight, fight, fight.

[00:49:16] But sometimes, I mean, either, sometimes you have to Tony and he went to another school just cause he said, I can’t do this anymore. And that’s my family sometimes turn the other cheek. 

[00:49:35] Sophia Lebano: [00:49:35] Yeah, it’s hard, but I mean sometimes.

[00:49:42] yeah. So the last question is where can people connect with you if they want to get in touch with you and buy all of your wonderful books and read your amazing article. 

[00:49:53] Dr Hendershott: [00:49:53] But my book is the politics of envy. I hope. Oh, people will read it because in order to understand, cancel culture, you have to understand it.

[00:50:00] And yeah. So 

[00:50:01] Sophia Lebano: [00:50:01] your book is available through Sophia press, right? 

[00:50:05] Dr Hendershott: [00:50:05] Sophia press or Amazon. 

[00:50:07] Sophia Lebano: [00:50:07] Yeah. Dr. Hendershott. Thank you so much for joining us. It was such an amazing conversation. And I know I’m going to walk away with just amazing insights and perspectives on you know, how I am in the world with cancel culture and how we can really start to root out envy at the source.

[00:50:25] So thank you so much for joining me. . 

[00:50:28] Dr Hendershott: [00:50:28] Thanks, Sophia. Thanks. It’s fun. It’s great to talk with you and I’m happy to meet you. 

[00:50:33] Sophia Lebano: [00:50:33] Yeah, me too. So again, thank you guys so much for tuning into this week’s episode of here podcast. Have a wonderful week. We’ll see you next time.

 

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