Authentic Masculinity w/ Oliver Pappas

 

Sophia Lebano

You are listening to Hear and Now Podcast, where we dive deep into faith, hearing loss, and lifestyle and talk about all the things that you need to be equipped in this journey we call life. I’m your host, Sophia Lebano and this show is here for you to find encouragement in everyday life that God created for you.

Make sure to subscribe to never miss an episode. Thanks for your support. Now let’s get into the show.

Hello, everybody. What’s up. Welcome back to another episode of Hear and Now Podcast. I’m very excited to have another guest on this week, Oliver Pappas Pappas, to talk about authentic masculinity. So, Oliver Pappas, thank you for being here. 

Oliver Pappas

Well, thank you so much for having me Sophia. I really appreciate it. And it’s going to be great conversation.

Sophia Lebano

So why don’t you take some time to introduce yourself? 

Oliver Pappas

Certainly. Yeah. So my name is Oliver Pappas and a lot of people probably know my sister, Cece Pappas on Instagram, I guess, in the, in the Catholic influencer world, I suppose. So I am, let’s see, starting out with an age right? 25. I am a army national guard officer here in the state of Indiana.

And I also work for the department of the army also in the state of Indiana. So I am just starting my career, I guess, you could say career, but also branching out in, into coaching. It’s  really where my heart is at. You know, I never been one to really pursue the whole corporate world, but from what I’ve seen in, you know, from my wanderings and everything like that, seeing guys where they are, and just, just not being in a great place myself in a few stages of life, I think we really need to focus more on individual responsibilities of, of masculinity.

And really bringing back that authentic nature to men, you know, that’s, that’s endowed within us and take responsibility for their actions and, and really focus on how we can become better men to lead our families and our homes and our girlfriends, wives, children, and ultimately society, back to a, a place of morality and a place of logic.

Sophia Lebano

Absolutely. I mean, I have a lot of female listeners on the show as well, but my hope is that they can pass some of this information on to their boyfriends, husbands, anything like that. So what are some of your passions, hobbies? I know you kind of talked about it briefly. 

Oliver Pappas

Passions and hobbies.  Well. I really love to read.

I love to read and I really love to work out. So th- with those two things, I guess, you know, and working out, and anything to do with personal development, the outdoors, and I do train triathlon, so swim, bike, run, and that’s always a really fun thing to do too. So. Yeah, that’s about it. 

Sophia Lebano

Yeah. I mean, one of the things that I love following along on your Instagram with is, you know, your daily motivational topics in the morning when you hop on. You know, your workouts and things like that too.

So, I mean, I guess to kind of transition the conversation, have you been Catholic your whole life? 

Oliver Pappas

Yes. I have been. We were raised — my whole family, my brother, my sister, and myself were all raised as cradle Catholics, but you know, like a lot of families, there was no catechesis and that’s not — I wouldn’t place a blame on my parents.

They did the best they could. And I think they did a pretty darn good job. Of course I’m biased. But there’s, there’s a lack of catechesis and in my generation and in a lot of our generations, for a number of reasons, and we won’t get into that, that’s a much larger rabbit hole to go down, but… 

Sophia Lebano

I’m cradle Catholic myself.

But the Catechism was something that I didn’t come to know until I was in high school and in my early years of college as well. So it’s something that’s so foundational to Catholicism, but I really do wish that, you know, people would start to come to know that at a younger age and really it would help aid them in growing up in such a moral, sound home.

You know what I mean? So what has your faith journey  been like, you know, through college, through any jobs that you’ve worked, things like that? 

Oliver Pappas

It’s been a roller coaster. And just based on experience, a lot of people don’t take ownership of their faith. And I can say that because I didn’t for a very long time and, and faith, isn’t just something that, that we have.

And not just something that we profess to believe because faith without works is dead, right? A necessity of faith is action. And, and personal responsibility and ownership of that faith, not just paying lip service to some faith, but actually living out what we profess to believe. And, and that was something I didn’t do for a very, very long time and something you know, we, we do struggle with, and I think we’re meant to struggle with until the day we die. 

And, you know, I was having a conversation last night on Instagram with John through Pray  Novenas Together. And, you know, we were having a great conversation, and he was mentioning the saints and how, you know, we should all be striving for sainthood and striving for, for sanctity.

Obviously, that means we want to make it to heaven. But a lot of the saints were not good people. Look at St. Paul, he persecuted Christians. He killed the early Christians, right? He wasn’t a good guy, but you know, he had that amazing conversion, I think it was on the road to Damascus. And it’s just one of those things that faith, again, I said, faith without works is dead because we can’t just profess to believe these things.

So, you know, we’re, we’re not always the best people and that’s okay. But, we have to take responsibility for our actions. Once we learn, once we do see the truth, once we do come to an understanding of, you know, the life that we have and living, isn’t the life that we’re meant to be living, then if we don’t take action on that, then we are in a sorry state, indeed. 

So really the story  boils down to just that road of finding what that personal responsibility was in my own life and taking action towards, towards those things. So,  because of that lack of catechesis, I didn’t really take ownership of my faith and I didn’t have the answers to what I believed. I just believed it because that was what we believe as Catholics, right? We, we go to Mass on Sundays because that’s just what we do and we don’t read the Bible. So that’s, that was my understanding. And why would I open the Bible? You know, I go to Mass. And that’s a very fixed mindset way of looking at faith. And so going from there and going into college, I wasn’t rooted in my faith.

And so all the assailments especially in collegiate institutions really affected me in a big way. And so while I didn’t completely abandon my faith, I still went to Sunday Mass. I was very much lukewarm. I was very much kind of not really understanding what was going on. Definitely didn’t really believe in the true presence nor really understood the true presence.

I thought it was a symbol. I really did. And you know, that was something I came to learn later on. But. Throughout college, you know, dabbled in agnosticism and atheism and, and nondenominational -ism. And those are all the isms I think I dabbled in. And so,

Sophia Lebano

There’s so many. 

Oliver Pappas

And so, you know, just kind of going through all those different things and, I studied biology, so really trying to reconcile faith and science was a very difficult thing for me, but overall through some very, very good friends in college who were very, very faithful. They prayed for me a lot, and that was definitely a linchpin in my not completely abandoning faith in, in college.

From there, it just kind of was ups and downs in faith and going to non-denominational church services and Presbyterian churches and Protestant churches, all the while, still going to Sunday Mass. Just because it was tradition for me. 

And the really big moment happened. There was this time when I moved to St. Louis, Missouri, right after college, I, I graduated and I had done ROTC in college. And so I graduated in May of 2018 and I had about three or four months before I picked up going to a basic officer course at Fort Leonard wood, Missouri.

So I decided to become a painter. And so I, I was apprenticed in the trades in St. Louis and started painting houses about four months. And during that time it was, it was kind of lonely. I didn’t really know anybody in St. Louis. I know moved there and I’ve lived outside Chicago, my whole life. So I was really struggling with some self-image issues at that point.

And I was kind of into weightlifting and not necessarily for the right reasons. Still really big into fitness now, but, in, in a much different way. And so I remember one day staring at myself in the mirror. I was, I was renting an attic room in this really old 18th century house. And I remember sitting, standing in the attic, looking in the mirror and thinking, just really criticizing myself and wondering why I was having such a hard time you know, mentally with my self image.

I’m like, what’s going on? Like I should– you know, this, this is not right. And I just had this connection. It was just this moment. And in, in the movie, the Apostle Paul. You know, there’s, there’s a line where Paul is talking to the  the leader of this, Roman prison and this Roman prison guard’s talking to Saint Paul.

And he goes, “You know, thanks for explaining your faith to me, but I still don’t believe”. And Paul goes, “Well, I wasn’t trying to convert you because nothing I can tell you will make you believe. It’s just a moment. It has to be a moment and I will pray for that moment to come to you.” 

And that moment for me, staring in that mirror happened, I just made that connection. I’m like, wow, I am, I am a son of the King. That is my self-worth. That is my identity. Nothing else matters besides that. And that can never leave. That will never be stripped from me. I should measure myself in no other way, but, but that. And that was a really beautiful realization because that opened the door for a lot more growth and development after that moment.

So from that point, there were just a series of events. I started discerning the priesthood later that spring in the spring of 2019. And it was a really beautiful time, decided that I was not called to the priesthood, that I was indeed called to be a become a husband and a father.  Had this beautiful moment during Holy Week of 2019, where right during the Consecration, I just had this, amazing, just, experience of watching the consecration, and just knew that the Catholic faith was going to be in my life forever. And it was just a really, really beautiful moment, very hard to explain it. And those two moments and meeting some really intentional, very awesome, on fire friends for the faith really helped bring me from where I was and escalate.

And  really helped take responsibility in my faith and take action in, in leading the charge to developing in the faith, understanding the faith, and really making it my own and really developing that relationship with our Lord. So that was a huge thing for me. And that was just in throughout the summer of 2019.

And that led to kind of how we’re talking now. It’s just one big upswing of taking ownership and responsibility. So… 

Sophia Lebano

I feel like a lot of times, young people these days don’t really know how, or don’t really have that guidance to take ownership. So is that something that you’re working on kind of preaching in your ministry online?

Oliver Pappas

So many things that are in our culture, in our society right now, everything that’s pressed to us, we look at the media, we look at the different things that we’re subconsciously being bombarded with. Either on television, in news media, and social media, and all of these different platforms and mediums that are just being fed to us, that taking responsibility for our own actions is a negative thing.

A lot of what we’re seeing is a shirking of personal responsibility of telling you “it’s not your fault. You’re okay the way you are.” All of these different things that “you don’t need to develop yourself, other people should change and accept you.” No, that–that’s a lie. Yes, you should know your self worth. You should understand that you have inherent worth as the pinnacle of our Lord’s creation as a human being.

The chances of you being born are something like one in a billion. Don’t quote me on the stats, but it’s incredible. The fact that you’re alive and a human person is amazing. The fact that you can move your finger, just an inch? Millions and trillions of things in your body have to go right for that to happen, for you to just move your finger.

And when we take so many things for granted every single day, that — the supposition that taking responsibility and, and not bettering our — bettering ourselves is in, in some way, positive is just, doing us such a disservice as a society and as a culture. And so there’s — not, not to say that there’s no blame on, on, you know, our generation today for not desiring to take responsibility. But to a certain extent, we can’t necessarily blame them because of all the messaging that’s being thrown to us and that we’re being forced to, to, to feed ourselves with.

So there needs to be kind of, I would say, an awakening of understanding and understanding that yes, you have inherent worth as a human person. But it is also your responsibility to develop that worth and to strive, to become better, to pursue greatness in your own life, because only by bettering yourself are you going to be able to affect others in a positive way.

If you don’t fill your cup, then you’re operating on empty and you’re going to be ineffective in trying to fill anybody else’s cup. And so this notion that we shouldn’t strive and, and, and we “should just be accepted for who we are”; there’s a little bit of truth in that. However, just being accepted for how we are and, and never striving for anything more will, will only,  only lead to stagnation and, and a lack of fulfillment.

Sophia Lebano

Yeah, I think that’s such a great way to explain it because I feel like there’s almost this like unhappy complacency with how we are in this day, and I think there’s always just, I guess, desire for people to want to grow, but they don’t really know where to start. But then you’re also kind of competing with that voice of like, “You don’t need to grow.

You’re perfect how you are.” So I think you really did a good job of explaining that for a lot of people. And so kind of just to go along with that, authentic masculinity, that’s a huge part of your ministry. How would you describe it to somebody in the most basic words in your explanation? 

Oliver Pappas

Well, for some reason I’m drawing a blank, but authentic masculinity at its core, we look at what we were, created to be. Right? As men, as God’s creation, we look to Adam, and the Lord created Adam to protect His creation, to, to keep the garden of Eden. So at the top, we’re meant to protect. He also created Adam to preside over the garden of Eden to be the head and, and be the keeper and, and give names to the animals and the fish and the birds.

So he presided over that. So we are to protect and preside and to a large degree, He created man to provide. As well, He created Eve out of a rib to be Adam’s helper. If, you know, by that virtue then, if somebody is helping you, you’re meant to provide for them, right? That, that doesn’t necessarily mean a subordination, but that means that you are supposed to provide to that person.

And I’m kind of stealing a little bit. There’s this great podcast I listen to every single day called the Order of Man Podcast. So I would highly recommend you guys listening to it and go check it out. The host Ryan Mickler is, is he has some wonderful ideas and their, their phrases provide protect, preside, as men.

And that’s kinda where I took those things from, but that’s really is an excellent summation of what men are meant to do. However, I would add one more thing in there, pray, right? Men, we are meant to pray to our creator who has given us all these amazing things. And so as men, again, to provide for those around us provide for our families, our friends, our spouses, our girlfriends, our children, to preside over that which we have been entrusted with.

We look to the parable of the talents. All right, we look to the good stewards, the good servants. You know, we don’t want to be the wicked servant. We don’t want to be the man who buries his talent in the sand. And it gets scolded by our master, by our Lord. And we are meant to multiply our talents, to use them for good.

And we are meant to, to protect that which we had been entrusted with as well. So to protect, provide, preside and pray is to be a man. And specifically, it was taken out of context quite a bit, but to preside over our, our wives, our homes, our children, and our family. That’s biblical, that’s not misogynistic.

That’s not counter to anything that’s ever been. Because if we look at scripture, it says a good wife is subordinate her husband, but the husband’s goal is to lead that family to Heaven. And the husband’s goal is to submit to the father and to provide for his wife. So if the husband’s goal is to provide for his wife and his family, and the wife’s goal is to submit to the will of the husband. Well, the,  the will, of the husband is nothing more than to serve his wife and his family. And so there’s this incredible circle, this, this, this circular emotion to the whole thing, which everything works together. And it’s so beautifully interconnected to where these relationships are meant.

We’re just meant to, to really work together, to get each other to happen. And that’s just kind of a quick tangent on marriage, but absolutely,  to protect, provide, preside and pray would be the function of men. 

I mean, what you said about the whole misogynistic view, it’s really hard to wrestle with that and today’s society.

Sophia Lebano

And I am a big advocate for the feminine genius, you know, really knowing your woman identity, but not making it so that it becomes this almighty power. You know what I mean? But like you said, it’s biblical, the man is meant to serve, protect, and pray over his family. So do you think masculinity has kind of lost its value and authenticity over the years?

You know, I guess since it all came out in the Bible, has it really just kind of gone downhill from there? 

Oliver Pappas

Yeah, certainly we, the role that men play in society has been completely diminished over the past few generations. And it’s a very sad thing to be.  I don’t want to be a Debbie downer about it because it’s not a good situation.

And that’s so clear to anybody, anybody looking with a pair of eyes and  a brain who can think for themselves and think critically and think independently can see and look at the role of men in society has been significantly depressed. We look at the media, we look at popular culture. All we see is men being portrayed as toxic and buffoons, and not needed. You know, especially in science, I guess, you don’t really need men to have babies anymore.

You can just do artificial insemination, which, is is not good. And so without getting into the whole, you know, Debbie downer thing and doom and gloom about masculinity, anyone with a brain can see that what’s going on. And the onus is on us as men to step up to the plate and, and reject the, the current themes of our, of our culture and society and say, no, we, we do serve a very important function and a very important purpose to what’s going on in society, what is always going on in society. And we need to take ownership and responsibility. We need to stop being comfortable. We need to step outside of our comfort zones. We need to reject complacency, reject effeminacy, and be men. Be the men we were created to be. And  lead. 

Sophia Lebano

Yeah, that lead part is huge because I feel like a lot of times there’s this almost like, I guess, nervousness to take charge and take ownership of yourself and your position. And so, you know, God created man and woman, what we are, and our identity is exactly what He called us to be and what he made us to be.

So I think, you know, if you’re made a man, you have that responsibility to be a man and take charge and of course the same in a woman as well. But in terms of, I guess, marriage, dating, courting, anything like that, what kind of qualities should a woman look for in an authentic man? 

Oliver Pappas

First and foremost, that he is a man of prayer and understands his, his identity in our Lord.

That’s paramount. And understands his identity. That’s number one, number two, he’s a man of vision. That he can tell you, the vision he has for his future, that he can tell you where he’s going and what he’s doing to accomplish that vision and where you fit into that vision, where a family, where wife and children, and a legacy fits into that vision.

So that’s, that’s two things, right? A man of prayer who understands self-worth and a man of vision. We need to see number three, can he, can he lead himself? And a big part of leading oneself, by the way, is self denial, is death to self. That’s a huge thing we don’t see. 

And that’s, that’s a big part of this rise in, in effeminate men and complacent men who, who I hear repeatedly, a lot of men telling me, “I just, I, I strive to live a life of comfort.” And, and we should reject that, we should actively reject a life of comfort. You know, having things that make us comfortable, like I have an armchair that I sit in and I read it. That is a comfortable armchair. I enjoy sitting in that armchair because it’s comfortable.

My car is comfortable. Right? I enjoy driving the car. That doesn’t mean those things are bad, but what that doesn’t mean, I don’t design my life around comfort, right? Because if we design a life, a life of comfort, that means we’re never stepping outside of our zone of comfort. Therefore, we’re not growing.

We’re stagnating. The, the main part of continuing to live a human life and, and pursuing the sanctity is, getting outside of our comfort zone and growing. So that third thing that I would say is a man can die to himself. So three things, a man of prayer, who knows his, self-worth, a man of vision who can tell you where he’s going and how he’s taking you with him. And number three, a man who can die to himself. 

Sophia Lebano

Yeah. Again, I think that last one is super important. I mean, I really can’t add more to that than what you already said, but that self-sacrifice is super important in any relationship. And of course, ultimately in marriage. So what is some advice you have, for men and women to kind of have that self-sacrifice and that dying to self or any relationship that they’re in?

Oliver Pappas

Boy. So a little, a little bit of advice, I guess, for, and this is all, this is just personal things that I, that I’ve been able to use my own life in, in that self denial. It starts with an awareness. Anything starts with an awareness of what’s going on. 

So first of all, first and foremost, we need to become students of ourselves. We need to study ourselves. We cannot give that which we do not possess. We must first possess ourselves, and therefore, we need to study ourselves in order to possess ourselves so that we can freely make a gift of ourselves to another person in relationship, in marriage, in anything in life.

We can make a gift of ourself in a number of ways. So that piece of advice would come from studying oneself. Understanding, in what ways do you identify yourself, latching on to things latching on to possessions and to habituations in your, in your life? And just making that really honest evaluation of where you are and kind of what your temperament is, you know, how do you live your, your daily life and what things do you, you cling to? Parts of the day do you get upset? When do you lose your inner peace? When you lose patience and start tabulating those out and you can start putting those on paper and start identifying,  which ones need the most attention. Okay. I’m going to work on this, and then I’m going to work on this, and I’m going to work on that.

And after a little bit of intentionality in getting thoughts out on paper and kind of writing out a plan to how to work on it, these things and your life, it is amazing. Absolutely astounding, how far you can go in 30 to 60 days at the minimum. And when you make a habit of doing a personal inventory, and that could take the form of, of a daily examination of conscience, when you make a habit of taking that kind of personal inventory, there is no limits on your growth whatsoever. And so, that piece of advice that you asked about how we can die more towards self. Well, it starts with awareness, starts with taking personal inventory of how we’re not currently dying too ourselves.

And then identifying ways that we can release some things in our life. That we can live more freely without necessarily clinging onto these things, living with our palms up, essentially. Gripping things loosely. And then, another piece of advice I would give is read books about the lives of the saints. Read books.

A great book I just finished was Searching for and Maintaining Peace by Father Jacques Philippe. Was a fantastic book, and my girlfriend and I are actually talking about it tonight over date night. And, and it’s, it’s just a brilliant, brilliant way to gather information about ourselves. Just read from people who have been there, and who have had success and these principle.

Sophia Lebano

Yeah, so who are some of your favorite saints for, I guess that idea of personal growth? 

Oliver Pappas

My, my favorite Blessed, I’ll say, is Blessed Pier Giorgio Frassati. 

Sophia Lebano

Yes.

Oliver Pappas

I’ve read the book about his life, a man of the beatitudes. And, you know, he was someone who had a great devotion to the rosary, to the Blessed Sacrament.

And I remember reading about his life. He was someone that even if he wasn’t good at things, he would still do them. And I think there’s a lot to be said for that in, in persevering, because, just because we’re not good at something doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it. Right? It just means we have to work that much harder at it.

So I can’t really give a lot more than that. I’m drawing a blank on some, some more saints. I know St. Catherine of Sienna has some amazing things in that book that I referenced quite often. In addition to St. Padre Pio and I’d say Maximillian Kolbe and a few others, but I guess I could quote from those later.

Sophia Lebano

No. Yeah. I mean, St. Padre Pio is one of the coolest. We have a shine actually, near us, the Padre Pio shine, and it’s always so cool to head up there, and really just see what his life was like. It’s like a museum there, but yeah, I mean, some of my favorites, again, I love St. Francis of Assisi. He is always so great, such a great model of humility, and just gentleness and peace as well.

But my mom has been reading through Searching for and Maintaining Peace by Father Phillippe as well. So, great book. And I love when she quotes things from there. I was like, wow, this is so applicable to my life. It’s so amazing. Yeah, so do you have any like favorite quotes or things from there? Cause again, it’s just such a great resource. 

Oliver Pappas

You know, there’s.

There’s one thing about abandonment of self that kind of goes into that  that denial of self, right? The hardest thing, not the hardest thing, but a very difficult thing to do is to abandon ourselves to say, you know, “Lord, You are, You are the Lord of my life and my heart, and I want what You want. And I abandon myself to You.” 

And another word for, for abandoned is “submit.” People don’t like that word. If you don’t like the word “submit,” you know, we’re, we’re Americans, we don’t submit to anybody. You know, that that’s  an endearing sentiment, I suppose, but we need to be able to submit to, to, to the will of Our Father.

And so there’s a great passage in here. And on page 40, of Searching for and Maintaining Peace, is what to do when you’re unable to abandon yourself. And the piece of advice is shocking. It says, abandon yourself anyway. If you can’t do it, do it anyway, because it’s, it’s about consistency and abandonment, it’s, it’s not a natural thing.

The book says it’s a grace to be asked of God and, and He’ll give it to us. If we pray with perseverance and it quotes, Matthew 7:7 to “ask, and it will be given to you.”  You know, the Lord does not refuse this spirit of abandonment to those who ask with faith. So a lot of things in life are about consistency, especially, in, in things like prayer. When we, when we find things difficult, when we might be dry in our prayer life, that oftentimes is when we’re the closest to our Lord, because it takes that much more effort and it takes that much more grace and it takes that much more of us to be able to make that connection in prayer.

And so when we persevere, even when things are difficult, and when we think we’re not really doing a good job at it, then that’s a really amazing thing. 

Sophia Lebano

I don’t know if I’ve ever thought about it that way. Cause you ever, you go through those times in your life, you’re like, I don’t even feel like God’s here, but then afterwards you’re like, and in hindsight you’re like, oh, my gosh, He has done so many good things during that time.

So I feel like it’s just this evergreen process of always like, going through periods where you’re like, I don’t even know if He’s still here and then periods where be like talking to Him every day, like a best friend. And it’s so cool to always have that relationship because you’re like, He’s never going to get mad at me  for anything I do, He’s always going to forgive me. And so completely different than human friendships, where they can’t walk away from you like that. It’s only your personal choice. And so I wanted to ask you a little bit about The Man School. So tell us about that. I know your sister is involved with The Woman School. So what is The Man School kind of like in a nutshell? 

Oliver Pappas

Absolutely Man School is the newest part of, of my life. And it’s something I’m incredibly excited about. It’s a, it’s a masterclass it’s a six month masterclass developed around the, the mastermind concept from Napoleon Hill’s Think and Grow Rich. And the vision for the School is, is to equipment, to build an integrated vision for every area of life and to really help men get those practical skills on how to manage their mind, their body, their goals, and build that complete vision for every area of life. Because so often in the pursuit of success, in any arena of life, without a full understanding of where we are and where we’re going in different areas of life, some areas are liable to fall to the wayside, right? And 100% balanced in life is an impossibility. And, and that’s not something that is, it’s not a realistic expectation.

You’re not going to have, you know, like 10%. If you have 10 areas of life and a hundred percent, you know, you’re not going to have 10 % in every single area across the board. It’s just not going to happen. 

There’s going to be times in your life, when you know, when your relationships might, might suffer for work, or your finances might suffer for family and things like that, but developing and understanding of how to intentionally design our life and our days and the different aspects of our life, to live more integrated in each of these areas is an incredible thing we can do for ourselves, because it’s going to make things that much easier down the road when things do get more difficult. 

So if we take the time and invest the time into really creating a roadmap and a compass for ourselves, for where we want to go, then, when we encounter these trials, when we encounter these difficult times in life, we will still retain that roadmap. And we’ll have that compass because we’ve done the work ahead of time and we’re not going to get off track as much as we would have if we didn’t take the time and identify what we want to do, what kind of life we want to design, what kind of life we want to have. 

You know, so many people these days, and we see a lot about hustle. Everybody’s hustling. Everyone has a side hustle. You know, so many people are, people that are hustling so hard. They don’t have time to live. You know, where’s the living in all that hustling? It’s really important to design a life that we can, we can live and we can live proudly, a life that we don’t want to vacate.

That takes a lot of intentional work on the front end. And, and the biggest thing that people regret when they get to the other life is not working more. It’s not making more money. The biggest things people regret are spending enough time with, with family and friends and doing the things that, that they really love to do, but they never put time into those things because they were constantly hustling.

Right. We, we need to be aware of the desires that our Lord has placed in our heart and understand that these have been placed here for a reason. And we are meant to entertain those and cultivate those and grow those into parts of our life. Not just distant things that we do as hobbies, sometimes we’re meant to cultivate these things. 

And so understanding that it’s really, really important to design your life and, and to use all these things that the Lord has placed in our hearts, to design a life of greatness that will really glorify His creation even more. And, and so that’s really what The Man School is endeavoring to do. 

But it does it through, through 22 lessons starting from, oh man, we go through crystallizing dreams, cultivating self-image. You know, confidently, and intentionally, creating an impactful environment and living the art of masculinity. And then we talk about some bonus topics called you know, “Being a Great Provider”. We discuss pornography and addictions, and we discuss one of the biggest killers, complacency, and dealing with complacency.

So I’m just over the moon about being able to talk to, to men about these topics and, and help them understand, because a lot of people don’t ever put the time to think about these things. I was talking to a guy yesterday about this, and I, you know, we’re having our first meeting about it and I asked him, “So how was this, all this sitting with you?”

He goes, “Man.  it blew my mind. I’m a little overwhelmed.” And I go “Well, that’s, that’s okay. That’s a good thing because so many people don’t think about these things.”

It is a little overwhelming, but just because it’s overwhelming doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t take the time to intentionally plan these things out, because it’s going to make life that much more fulfilled for us, and for those who we decide to bring into our lives, and that goes into being a man of vision. 

Sophia Lebano

Yeah. So any advice for kind of finding that balance of really, you know, like you said, all those 10 categories. You’re not going to reach a hundred percent, but any advice to kind of get close to that as much as possible?

Oliver Pappas

Absolutely. Take The Man School. Enroll in The Man School. You know, it’s, it’s hard to really say one piece of advice, because it’s so many little things, and the biggest thing would be to eliminate bad habits in your life. Sit down, evaluate your life, eliminate the bad habits, and intentionally identify positive habits that you would like to cultivate through your entire life. Or even through this season and start working 30 days, 45 days, 60 days at a time, to cultivate these good habits in your life because habits are the foundation of behavior, right. And the, the foundation of change. And so, habit formation would be probably the most rich piece of advice that I would give on that besides just enrolling in The Man School.

Sophia Lebano

Well, you know what, it’s a place for self promotion. So why not? Do you have any last words for really just cultivating this society? And really making an impact in society, on changing the culture of, you know, being female and being male. 

Oliver Pappas

Yeah, that’s, it’s a really, really lofty goal, but it’s not an impossible goal.

You know, there’s, there’s a lot of things that, that are working against authentic femininity and masculinity. You know, there’s, there’s identity politics, there’s intersectionality, there’s all these, you know, there’s revisionist history, all these different ideologies out there floating around. And a lot of people have been very turned off by hypocrites and by hypocritical behavior.

And so we cannot just add to that nonsense by saying one thing and doing another. This authenticity is through and through practicing what you preach. It’s walking the walk, and talking the talk. It’s your audio matching your visual. That is authenticity. Although, authenticity has become a marketing buzzword these days.

It’s really living that whole self. It’s who you are at home, is who you are at work. Is also by the way, who you are with your friends, and who you are when nobody’s watching you. That is authenticity through and through. And so it’s living again to use the integrated vision of life living completely integrated in all aspects of life.

And that comes down to solidifying your character, right. Character’s who you are when nobody’s watching. That’s really what authentic masculinity and authentic femininity boil down to. It’s practicing what you preach, saying, “Okay. If we believe these things, if we understand these things, if we know the logic behind these principles, then, we need to live them out and we need to embody them.”

And by developing ourselves, by growing ourselves and by living out these principles on our own life, just by association alone, by changing our life, people take notice of that, in a big way. And it won’t always inspire them to action, but it will inspire them in one, in some shape or form. And that’s a really amazing thing. And so it starts with us in the smallest things and in the largest things, to take personal responsibility and to live authentically in every area of life. 

Sophia Lebano

Yeah. 100% nothing where it can add to that. But of course, the last question I wanted to ask to kind of close this out, is where can people connect with you to learn more about The Man School, about your ministry or anything that you do?

Oliver Pappas

Yeah, certainly. The best way would be Instagram @Oliver.pappas. And you know, it takes me a little bit of time to get back to direct messages. They pile up really fast and it’s something I’m working on being better at, but Instagram would be the best way, and then email. It’s opappas.themanschool@gmail.com.

Those would be the easiest ways. 

Sophia Lebano

Awesome. Yeah, those links will be down below. Oliver, thank you so much for being here today. This is a really great conversation. 

Oliver Pappas

Absolutely. Thank you so much. It was, it was a great conversation, Sophia. 

Sophia Lebano

I know I asked hard questions, but I’m a philosophically minded person. So I really hope that inspires people to kind of take action and really just look at themselves in the mirror and really evaluate their authenticity.

So again, thank you so much for being here. And thank you guys for listening to this week’s episode of Hear and Now Podcast. We will see you guys next time. Bye-bye.